September 05, 2007

The Men with the Golden Glove

Rawlings has announced its All-Time Gold Glove Team for the best defensive baseball players by position over the fifty-year life of its award.

The greatest measure of fielding excellence since 1957, the heralded Rawlings Gold Glove AwardŽ is presented annually to 18 Major League Baseball players, one for each position, in both the National and American Leagues. (In 1957, only nine players received the award.) These outstanding players are selected as the best fielding players at their respective positions by Major League coaches and managers prior to the conclusion of the regular season. Managers and coaches may not select players from their own club and only vote for players in their own league.

Here are the results:

  • Pitcher: Greg Maddux (16 Rawlings Gold Gloves), Bob Gibson, Jim Kaat.
  • Catcher: Johnny Bench (10), Ivan Rodriguez, Bob Boone, Bill Freehan, Jim Sundberg.
  • First Baseman: Wes Parker (6), Don Mattingly, Keith Hernandez, J.T. Snow, Vic Power, Bill White.
  • Second Baseman: Joe Morgan (5), Roberto Alomar, Ryne Sandberg, Bill Mazeroski, Frank White, Bobby Richardson.
  • Third Baseman: Brooks Robinson (16), Mike Schmidt, Scott Rolen, Eric Chavez, Buddy Bell, Ken Boyer.
  • Shortstop: Ozzie Smith (13), Derek Jeter, Omar Vizquel, Dave Concepcion, Luis Aparicio, Mark Belanger.
  • Outfielders: Willie Mays (12), Roberto Clemente (12), Ken Griffey, Jr. (10), Jim Edmonds, Andruw Jones, Carl Yastrzemski, Ichiro Suzuki, Al Kaline, Torii Hunter, Kirby Puckett, Paul Blair, Dave Winfield, Curt Flood, Andre Dawson, Dwight Evans, Garry Maddox, Larry Walker, Devon White.

I'd quibble at second base. Joe Morgan was great, but Mazeroski was better.

Let the arguments begin!

Posted by Linkmeister at September 5, 2007 12:44 PM | TrackBack
Comments

Baseball, schmaseball, but I'd like to understand the math. I got to 18 recipients and wasnt even past second base--which I guess is kind of a personal metaphor, but never mind. Anyway, what is this? Three year accumulation?

Posted by: terry in az at September 6, 2007 06:21 PM

One winner at each position except the outfield, where there are three winners. The remainder of the names are the non-winning vote-getters at each position.

Posted by: Linkmeister at September 6, 2007 07:44 PM

OK, Linky, ask and ye shall receive. :-)

First, I must note that fielding and defense are notoriously difficult to assess rationally. Unless players X and Y were both in position at the same time on the same play, you'll never be able to really say whether one of them would have gotten to a ball that the other one couldn't. And of course, real fielding miscues don't show up in the stats as "errors" ... they're called "hits". That said:

Pitcher -- no problem whatsoever with the choices or the order. They're all exceptional. Then again, as groundball pitchers, Maddux and Kaat had much more opportunity to demonstrate their prowess. Parenthetically, it didn't matter that Nolan Ryan was an atrocious fielder, since the (few) batters who didn't walk or fan usually hit flyballs.

Catcher -- I'm no fan of Rodriguez (I refuse to call him P***e) ... his entire catching rep is based on throwing. Bench revolutionized the position, abetted by the leap in mitt-technology while he played. In some ways, Boone (and Sundberg, to some degree) exemplifies the Nichols Law of Catcher Defense, in that such a light-hitting everyday catcher "must" be great with the glove.

Firstbase -- oh, Parker was good. But Hernandez was great, by far the best I've ever seen. Didn't see as much of Mattingly (and he's a Y***** to boot). Props to the selectors for putting Power and White on their list.

Secondbase -- ugh. Morgan exemplifies the notion that people win GGs with their bats. He was a great hitter who wasn't a defensive butcher, ergo he wins the Gold Glove. Sandberg was better, White much better. If you looked solely at making the pivot, there has never been anyone close to Maz (a highlight of the 1995 SABR convention in Pittsburgh was Maz's explanation and demonstration of how he made the transfer on the pivot). Alomar, who was in fact a poor fielder who was always out of position, doesn't belong on anyone's list of 2B glove-greats.

Thirdbase -- I'm biased. Schmidt was the best 3B who ever lived, and that includes fielding. That said, the list is very solid, even though neither Graig Nettles nor Aurelio Rodriguez is on it. I'd suggest that Adrian Beltre's career is too short for consideration, but they included Ichiro! in the OF so I'll just say that he belongs on the list too.

Shortstop -- which of these is not like the others? Though he's actually gotten a bit better recently, Jeter has always been a bad fielder. Usually not just bad, but awful. For instance, there's that famous "flip" to homeplate ... what the hell was he doing standing 20 feet from the plate? He was horribly, horribly, horribly out of position on that play (unfortunately, as that play helped the #%&*@ damnyankees advance). Anyway, Ozzie is incomparable, and there's no need to say much else.

Outfield -- Griffey is another horrendous choice. Almost all of those ESPN-highlight catches would have been excellent-but-routine for a good CF, to say nothing of great ones like Maddox, White, and Flood (and Mike Cameron, the best of the last decade, who isn't mentioned here). And Puckett was even worse than Griffey, allowing untold numbers of singles-that-should-be-outs fall in front of him because he played 30 feet too deep. Note that in this entire group, there's just one LF (Yaz). Best catch I ever saw in person was by Edmonds, reaching over the fence in the GABP in Cincinnati to steal a homer on July 16, 2004. Our seats were in the bleachers in right-center, so we had a perfect angle on the play. Here's the description from Retrosheet:

REDS 9TH: ISRINGHAUSEN REPLACED TAVAREZ (PITCHING); LaRue flied to center; ball well over fence, great catch by Edmonds to bring it back; he looked like a kid after catch with huge smile; CRUZ BATTED FOR CASTRO; Cruz grounded out (first unassisted); VANDER WAL BATTED FOR GRAVES; Vander Wal grounded out (third to first); 0 R, 0 H, 0 E, 0 LOB. Cardinals 7, Reds 5.
Is that enough talky-talk from me? :-)

Posted by: N in Seattle at September 7, 2007 09:55 AM

Heh. When provoked, you deliver. ;)

It looks to me like all the Rawlings people did was count the number of GGs awarded to each player during his career and declare the one with the most at each position the all-time best, without going through the analysis you did.

Posted by: Linkmeister at September 7, 2007 10:01 AM

Nope, not really. See the indispensable Baseball-Reference.com.

Your supposition works for P (well, it's a Maddux-Kaat tie), 3B, SS, and all three OF slots (again, there's a tie for 3rd, as Kaline also got 10 GGs). But Rodriguez owns two more GGs than Bench, Parker barely beats half of Hernandez's 11 (and also trails Donnie, Power, White, and Boomer Scott!?!), and Morgan has half of Alomar's completely undeserved 10.

Another factor in Gold Gloves is repetition. Because defense is unquantifiable, once someone wins a GG it's often his until he has declined to a state vastly worse than others at his position. Consider, for example, NL firstbase. Since the award began in 1957, the winners -- number of consecutive years in parens -- have been Gil Hodges (3 years), Bill White (7), Parker (6), Mike Jorgensen (1) , Steve Garvey (4), Hernandez (11), Andres Galarraga (2), Will Clark (1), Mark Grace (2), Jeff Bagwell (1), Grace again (2), J.T. Snow (4), Todd Helton (2), Derrek Lee (1), Helton again (1), Lee again (1), Albert Pujols (1). A bit of variation recently, but plenty of long winning stretches through most of the time. It's similar in both leagues, all positions.

And consider players who switch leagues. Supposedly, they're being assessed by entirely new sets of eyes, yet... Jim Kaat won the AL Gold Glove every year from 1962 through 1975. Traded to the Phillies in 1976, he immediately won two NL Gold Gloves. Bobby Shantz won the AL GG 1957-1960, the NL GG 1961-1964. J.T. Snow won in the AL in 1995 and 1996, then took the 1997-2000 GGs in the NL (probably the only thing that kept Grace from continuing his second streak).

There ya go ... more than you ever wanted to know about Gold Gloves.

Posted by: N in Seattle at September 7, 2007 12:14 PM

I was also surprised to see Griffey on that list. I didn't know he was considered that good.

Defense is unquantifiable if one is not Bill James. As with many other things, he makes the sanest pronoucements I have ever heard about fielding.

==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Peter at September 8, 2007 12:17 AM

I've had a soft spot for Roberto Alomar ever since I saw him actually touch second base making the pivot on a double play. When was the last time you saw a second baseman do that?
==============
Detectives Beyond Borders
"Because Murder Is More Fun Away From Home"
http://www.detectivesbeyondborders.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Peter at September 10, 2007 11:02 PM

Peter, I'm surprised Alomar was close enough to the bag to turn a DP. He always played far out of position, way too far to his left (toward 1B). Which is why all of his highlight-film plays were on those popups and soft liners in 1B/2B/RF no-man's-land.

In the meantime, single after single after single went up the middle ... singles that a properly-positioned 2B would have converted into tough-but-routine outs.

Posted by: N in Seattle at September 11, 2007 12:20 PM